you can see some of the pgress in this picture. workers boring their way down into the caverns under manhattan manhattan. the cost of this project, just over $4 billion. all right. thanks so much for watching today. that's going to do it for us. studio b with shepard smith starts now. >> when will that be finished? >> i'm guessing on tuesday. >> we'll see you there. there's been another attack on an american embassy overseas, the white house calling this an act of terror. details on who did it and why. plus, few signs of progress in the efforts to rescue a 5-year-old boy. this boy has been underground for three days with some crazy gunman who reportedly took the child in that underground bunker. details on how the relatives are coping. that's coming next. plus, we're two days away now from a family feud. head coaches jim and john harbaugh, brother against brother in the super bowl. their father sat down with fox sports caster jim gray.

jim will be here live unless breaking news changes everything on studio b. but first from fox at 3:00 in new york city, a suicide bomb attack on a u.s. embassy in turkey has left two people dead including the bomber in what the white house is calling an act of terror. u.s. officials are now warning all american citizenning inside turkey to stay away from any u.s. diplomatic posts throughout that country. the turkish police say the bomber blew himself up inside the security checkpoint at the size 6 sidside entrance of the . embassy. the blast killed a turk yirn guard and seriously injured a woman. the bomber was a member of a group the united states considers a terrorist organization. the group is an anti-american and anti-nato group. you may recall that nato is in the process of c deploying sevel american made patriot missile batteries to combat potential

threat from syria. it's fox's top story. jennifer griffin is live at the state department. all of this is falling on sct hillary clinton's last day. >> reporter: in fact, it was an extraordinary scene at the state department just moments ago as secretary of state hillary clinton made her way through the hallways and to the exit where hundreds of state department employees had packed to say goodbye, to hear her final farewell. they cheered. it was a very emotional farewell for the secretary of state. the 67th secretary of state who has now left the building, but as you mentioned, the exit was marred by this attack in turkey on the u.s. embassy earlier in the day. here's what secretary of state hillary clinton said as she left. >> of course, we live in very complex and even dangerous times as we saw again just today at our embassy in ankara where we

were attacked and lost one of our foreign service nationals and others injured. >> reporter: secretary of state designate john kerry will be given the oath by supreme court justice sonia sotomayor during a private ceremony, shepard. >> what do we know about the suspect, jennifer? >> reporter: we know that turkish authorities say that they believe that the attacker is part of this leftist marcsist group, a group that they identified as the 1 revolutionay people's liberation front. u.s. firms say it's too early to determine who is responsible for the bombing. intelligence sources tell us they're not ruling out involvement by al-qaeda or even an iranian proxy group, angry at perceived u.s. involvement in syria. remember, the first battery of the u.s. pate rol patriot missit

the u.s. sent to turkey became operational on the border today. within the region it's widely believed inside syria among assad's allies that the u.s. helped israelis help target a bomb. it may not want to appear al-qaeda is in turkey striking u.s. targets because they don't want their domestic population to leave turkey. it's very sensitive there right now. that's why you may be seeing turkish officials blame this on a left leaning small group that most people haven't heard of before. >> jennifer griffin at the state department. jen, thanks so much. the hostage situation in alabama is ongoing. three days now after a gunman reportedly took a child from a school bus and into his underground bunker. a law maker says the boy's mother is hanging on by a thread, and the mayor of midland city, alabama, a rural town near the border with florida, said he learned the child had been crying for his parents and at

the same time, officials point out that police have been able to send the boy the medicine that he desperately needs through a pipe that extends down into that bunker. >> for the past three days they've not been easy on anybody. details of the situation have been very limited, and wit we kw that can be frustrating for all of you, but we value your patience. >> the police chief of a neighboring town adde added h he believes the suspect will have to give up eventually. the safety of the 5-year-old boy is on the line. jonathan cerre live. how is the boy doing? >> reporter: well, shep, negotiations continue through the pvc pipe similar to what i'm holding now. at this point authorities say they have no reason to believe that any physical harm has come to the boy. meanwhile, we have video we want to show you from just moments ago. authorities towed away the school bus that was involved in the shooting at the very beginning of this hostage

situation. the school bus removed from the scene on its way to the school bus barn. meanwhile, we spoke with a pastor who said that he recently had a discussion with a colleague who has been ministering to the boy's family. listen. >> he said it's just literally amazing how well they're holding together in faith, you know, believing that this young boy's going to get to come home. he said they're really just paying for a positive -- praying for a positive outcome. >> reporter: so a lot of optimism in the community, even as the hostage standoff goes into its fourth afternoon. shep. >> it's my understanding you've heard from the family of the bus driver now. >> reporter: indirectly, yes, and they're doing as well as can be expected. they've planned a funeral for sunday. this funeral for charles poland, jr. is going to be held at the ozark civic center, a venue that seats approximately 5,000 people. everyone in this community believes that you'll need a large venue because there's been such an outpouring in the

community. everyone is regarding this bus driver as a hero, standing between the gunman and the children and paying the ultimate price for it, shep. >> jonathan serrie on sceen at the hostage standoff in lower alabama. with us now, an expert to spend 12 years on the new york city police department's hostage negotiation team. he's president of the security consulting firm protective counter measures. where do you begin with a die like this? >> well, the first thing you really want to do with something like this is try and establish common nalty with him. you try to develop a rap port. sometimes that's the most difficult part of it. >> three days on. i mean, does it get harder? does it get easier with time to make moves with a freak like this? >> you know, one of the things that you have to understand when you deal in these kind of situations from the hostage team concept, there are a number of negotiators that are out collecting intelligence

information both from the site and the facility that he's using, what its capabilities are. you try and get a little bit of understanding about he's known in the community. we understand that he's had some police interaction before, so you try and figure out, you know, as much as you can about that, and then you try and just take it a day at a time. at this point in time you can't rush to any type of judgment. you just have to take it a step at a time. >> the most important thing, of course, keeping that little boy safe and what buttons do you -- how do you work that? it's such a delicate operation. >> it's an incredibly complicated situation, especially the fact that we're aware that the child has some medical condition, so you have, you know, that might be something that you can use as a negotiating technique to maybe hit a soft button, but clearly it becomes a problem because now you're dealing with the welfare of the child and the welfare of the hostage taker. >> mighty tough. i guess you're working with the parents all the time on this, right?

>> the intelligence team would wind up working with the parents and collecting the data. normally in these setups you have a primary negotiator that's doing the talking with the hostage taker and you have the coach, the person who is kind of the block betweend negotiator and the rest of the team, and all of that intelligence information gets funneled into the coach. the coach winds up sort of mentoring or kind of assisting the imoashtor an negotiator andm what kind of tack to take. >> years and years of experience. let's hope it pays off. >> i'm sure it will. >> we're expecting a news conference any minute now. they've been updating every cumberland hours. reporters are getting ready there. we'll take you back live when that happens. two people wearing masks walked up to a prosecutor, a district attorney, gunned him down in broad daylight. today the killers are nowhere to be found. we'll have the latest on the hunt. plus ed koch once said i'm not the type to get ulcers. i give them. we'll take a look back at the

life of the man who put some of the swagger back in new york city. ed koch died this morning, we got the word. also, a little bit later in the program, the man who wants to be the next senator of new jersey, he thinks. geraldo is here live. [ male announcer ] how do you make america's favorite recipes? just begin with america's favorite soups. bring out chicken broccoli alfredo. or best-ever meatloaf. go to campbellskitchen.com for recipes, plus a valuable coupon. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

>> shepard: 13 minutes past the hour. the manhattan i manhunt is on fr who killed a prosecutor out of texas. two people wearing black masks and tactical gear shot the district attorney over and over again, then drove away before anybody could stop them. one man said he heard the shots and watched as witnesses tried to save that da. >> it went pop, pop, pop, pop. i saw the guy laying down, and it was like four people around him and they was doing cpr to him. >> this happened the same day that the u.s. justice department

officials publicly thanked the attorney for his work promoting members of the aryan brother hood, but officials say there's no evidence linking the white supremacist group to the shooting. greg jarrett is with us. what are playing saying? >> reporter: they're saying it was a hit job. >> i said promoting. i meant prosecuting. >> reporter: this was a targeted attack of a guy who went to put drug dealers and members of the mob behind bars. the killers, shep, are as yet unknown. there's his picture. he was shot and killed near the courthouse. he was walking to his office when he was suddenly am bushed. police are looking for two men wearing all black clothing, some kind of vests, maybe they were tactical vests. they fired several rounds and then they fled to a getaway car, so this was clearly preplanned. they were wearing masks. >> we have not been able to give you a race because the facial

features and bodily features were covered. different witnesses gave us different accounts of how they were covered, whether with a mask or a hoodie. the important part is they were covered and unable to get facial description. >> what's unusual, shep, is that hasse's family said he didn't fear for his life. there was nobody out there who was trying to get him. >> shepard: they're looking through all his past cases, i'm sure. >> look. this is a guy who was a top notch prosecutor. there's a lot of guys in his files who wanted to do him in. his colleagues are combing through the files trying to figure out who wanted him dead. police are gathering security camera video from all over the region to try to figure out before and after the fact if there might be video tape, surveillance video, in the days before the attack in which it was preplanned, in which they were looking for this guy. >> shepard: greg jair jarrett wl stay on tnch the former new york

city mayor who embodied the swagger of the big apple died this morning. ed koch was 88. according to his spokesman, mayor koch did not suffer when he died this morning of congestive heart failure. his death marks the end of a colorful loy and career in which he became a symbol of the city, one that he loved and lifted up when it was falling apart. eric shawn first interviewed mayor koch in 1974, and he's with us this afternoon in our newsroom. hi, eric. >> hi, shepard. he was part of the city, and the city so much a part of him. blunt, outspoken, but also very funny and caring. today the city he loves so much mourns ed koch. he had been in and out of the hospital for the past few months and at his birthday party just last month at new york's gracie mansion said he wakes up every morning thinking thank you god. >> when we were worried, he gave us confidence. when someone needed a good kick in the rear, he gave it to them,

and if you remember, he enjoyed it. >> he was relevant up until right now, up until the day he died. i received his e-mails, his movie reviews, his restaurant reviews. you know, he was clearly a major part of new york city life and we're going to miss him. >> shepard: ed koch was selected as mayor during a troubled time during 1977. by his third term in 1989, racial tensions helped contribute to his primary defeat. his lastin lasting legacy, savie city from bankruptcy. >> the city was in a state of short-term debt of $6 billion which we had to eliminate over a four-year period, and we did it over a three-year period, and i'm very proud of what we did. as i said when i left office, i'm never going to retire. i expect to die at this desk. >> shepard: for his manhattan tomb stone, koch chose the

words. my father is jewish, my mother is jewish, i am jewish. pearl was murdered in 2002 on this very same day that koch also passed away. ed koch remembered with afaction and respect by main including those like me who did have the privilege and joy of knowing and covering him for decades. shep. >> shepard: you know, eric, running er errands before work s morning, everywhere you went people were talking about mayor koch. >> he's an amazing man, full of spirit. he would take on both parties no matter what it was. he would do it and deeply meaningful. > >> shepard: eric shawn, thanks so much. 1974. >> i was in high school. >> shepard: yeah. i was going to say. you're holding up well, dawg. we're waiting for a news conference to come out of alabama. the mics are set up. we think it will happen in a few minutes. we'll slide a commercial break in real quick. i'm sure you've heard what's going on with the dow, right? it's over 14,000 and in striking

distance of territory for all time. talk about sibling rivalry, john harbaugh, jim harbaugh going up against each other in the super bowl on sunday. their dad has a unique perspective on this, and our new contributor, jim gray, asked him all about it. we'll speak with jim and have parts of his big interview. that's next on studio b. blac so...how'd it go? well, dad, i spent my childhood living with monks learning the art of dealmaking. you've mastered monkey-style kung fu? no. priceline is different now. you don't even have to bid. master hahn taught you all that? oh, and he says to say (translated from cantonese) "you still owe him five bucks." your accent needs a little work.

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>> shepard: this sunday's super bowl will be historic no matter what the outcome because for the first time, two brothers will coach opposing teams. john harbaugh for the ravens and jim harbaugh for the san francisco 49ers. people are calling it the harbowl. no matter what happens, it will be a bittersweet day for the family. fox news contributor and sports caster jim gray sat down with

dad jack harbaugh who explained what it's like watching his sons go head to head. >> there's no emotion. i mean, there are no real good plays. you don't celebrate good plays. you don't feel badly about, you know, because it's back and forth. what's good for one is not good for the other. > >> shepard: he said when the ravens and 9ers had a regular season matchup on 2011, his wife sat there looking near comatose for the whole game, and by the way, the ravens came out on top that time. vegas odds this time give the 90ers a slight edge in two days. sports caster and fox news contributor jim gray is with us live from new orleans, just coming off that interview with jack. jim, it's the ultimate goal for both of the harbaugh sons, but it sounds like it will be pretty excruciating for the family. how are they planning to handle it? >> reporter: well, this will be the first time, shep, in 14 years that the entire family will be together because thanksgiving and christmas and everything else that goes on throughout the year, they

haven't been able to get together. they also have a brother-in-law, tom creen who is the head coach at the university of indiana. he's got a big game against indiana. he's married to the harbaugh sister. i had a chance to talk to jack and jackie, jack, a coach for 40 years on the high school and college level. i asked how he would handle the game with such differing emotions. >> i think our first thought will be for the one that came up a little bit short, that agony of defeat type thing that we've all heard since we were just very, very young. but we'll take time, too, to go and share the thrill of victory with the other son, and with equal emotions. > >> reporter: we've seen this before with eli and peyton manning and what archie and their mother goes through. we've seen just how excruciating it is when serena plays venus. we've never seen this in a super

bowl. jack harbaugh wishes he and his wife whether or not the focus of this whole thing. >> jim gray, great to see you. >> shepard: graying news on fox newschannel. there's a hostage crisis going on in lower alabama. let's listen live. >> please continue to be patient with us and continue to pray for a safe conclusion to this incident. at this time thank you and we'll be back with you shortly. >> they come out there every two hours whether they have -- listen. whether they have anything to say or not. they promised us they would and they come out every two hours, and every time like you, i'm sure, all of us are hoping maybe they'll have some good news this time. sometimes all they say is thank you and pray for us, and this is one of those times. it is almost impossible, isn't it, to put yourself in that family's shoes? we haven't seen them. we haven't heard from them. we're not using their names. the parents, the grandparents, the aunts and the uncles with a

5-year-old boy buried underground in a crypt of sorts with some guy who murdered the bus driver and stole the child. i mean, first, the child watches the bus driver murdered, and then he gets snatched up and taken into a hole, and he's been there for three days. updates as they come in. absolutely incredible. well, the marxist group suspected of the bombing in turkey is strongly anti-american and the member of the group accused of carrying out the attack has a rich criminal history. we've gotten lots of details together and we'll bring them to you. plus, our colleague, geraldo rivera, said he is strongly considering running for the united states senate for the state of new jersey. he says the party, the republican party, needs a change. what sort of change? geraldo's live with us as we approach the bottom of the hour. the top of the news from studio b. you look a little lost. yeah, i'm looking to save, but i'm not sure which policy

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organization. all of this months after militants in libya assaulted our post there in benghazi and killed four americans including our and. amy kellogg with the news. what do we know about the guy suspectesuspected of doing this. >> reporter: hi, shep. we know he was about 40 years old. he had been part of this marxist outlawed group that the prime minister talked about today. he had been involved in the late '90s o'90s in attacks. he had been put in jail. he had gone on this massive hunger strike and then he became very sick and he was released, and he had gone under the radar screen until this point, until today, shepard. now, a contact at fox turkey tells us that he actually had to go through two roadblocks before he got to the security point at the embassy where he blew himself up, and it's not clear how he got that far, but the state department is describing the point where the bomber

detonated his vest as the first security point on the embassy compound. in any event, the guard was killed outside, but on the other side of that glass, two staffers were injured, not badly, and that particular point, shep, is about 20 yards from the main embassy compound. >> shepard: what more do we know about this group, amy he? >> reporter: well, this group, it's called the revolutionary peoples liberation hardy front, and it's on the u.s. and eu terrorist list. very anti-american, very anti-nato. they attacked turkish military and security installations. at some point that switched and they went after u.s. diplomats and u.s. military. they were particularly active during the gulf war, and they've killed dozens of people since the '70s. they finance themselves by robberies and extortion. experts don't rule out they may have been subcontracted by another group. in fact, i was reading the

newspapers a short while ago, shep. there was an article that said this was a splinter group of a larger organization backed by iran and syria. now, we don't have any confirmation of that, but again, there's always the possibility that they were subcontracted by someone else, the u.s. saying that they're following turkey's lead at this point but so far, turkey is just saying that it was this leftist group. >> shepard: amy kellogg in london. thanks so much. experts call ankara one of the safest cities in the region but consider turkey's neighbors, iran to the east, syria to the south and united states among the countries sending powerful patriot missiles to help turkey protect itself. less than a week ago nato reported that at least one of those missile systems was operational and ready to go. trace gallagher live with an update for us. trace, the u.s. sending weapons to turkey tends to generate, well, resistance. >> reporter: as we saw here,

shep, along with those pa patrit missiles, the u.s. sent 400 troops to help man the missiles. since the syrian civil war began, the u.s. and turkey's relationship has gotten even closer. turkey has long been a recipient of u.s. arms. in the past 60 years, we've given turkey nearly if $15 biln in arms and military aid. to expound on what you and amy colorado log were talkinkellogge group thought to be behind this has gotten smaller over the years but experts say they're very active, very anti-u.s. listen. >> it opposes the u.s. presence in turkey. it has always opposed the u.s. presence in turkey. we've seen the group target u.s. military in the past. in fact, one of the telltale signs of the group is it targets u.s. deployment in turkey whenever the united states sends troops and hardware into turkey. >> reporter: experts add that more u.s. support for turkey would likely result in more

violence. shep? >> shepard: but it's not like support for turkey's going away. >> reporter: no, because turkey is a very key nato ally and a key partner in the middle east. if you look at the region, it kind of makes sense. you've got u.s. military action in that region that turkey has supported. they've provided air basees for u.s. jets. turkey also serves as kind of a buffer zone to help stop terrorism and islam i can extremism. if you look at the u united stas chess board, turkey is ary region. >> turkey is the only country that borders both iran, iraq, and syria. whatever the u.s. policy is, whether it is to maintain stability in iraq or contain iran's nuclear ambitions or help the syrian uprising, turkey is necessary, and it's very much a needed ally. >> reporter: in fact, the white house today said that this bombing will actually strengthen the relationship between turkey

and the united states. shep? >> shepard: trace gallagher live for us this afternoon. thanks a lonchts mass protests today in egypt. a live look at the capital city of cairo, this the latest in a wave of political demonstrations in the aftermath of the revolution that toppled egypt's long time dictator. now demonstrators are denouncing the new president, president morsi, who they claim is working only on behalf of the muslim brotherhood. protesters are calling for a unity government and changes to the country's new constitution. we'll see what they get. here at home, fox's own geraldo rivera said he's seriously contemplating a run for the senate in his home state of new jersey. geraldo said he would run as a republican. an 89-year-ol 89-year-old democc senator holds the seated. he's up for reelection next year. he has not confirmed that he will run. if geraldo runs, he could find himself up against cory booker who said he is considering

running for the street. senator geraldo? or it woul could be senator riv. >> you could call me anything you like. >> what are you talking about, running from the senate. >> i moved from new york to new jersey in 1989. one of the reasons i decided to register ultimately as a republican was i had this idea in the back of my mind, public service, you know, being able to affect the dialogue at a national level, and why a republican? because all my heroes growing up were -- my elected heroes were republican, jacob javitz, clifford case, the moderate republican senator. but the g.o.p., nelson rockefeller, chris christie, the former governor in new jersey. , whitman. the republican party has drifted away from the party of business, free ente enterprise, and we've become the party of skulls, the

pair of no, you can't have an abortion. no, if you're gay, you can't be married. no, if you're an immigrant, you can't possibly think you're going to get on line to become a citizen of the united states. i think we have to go back to the party that existed when i was an idealstic law student in brooklyn or as i began my career as a straight reporter in new york -- a street reporter in new york and new jersey. we've got to go back to the party of inclusion, the big tent republican party where we say to the democrats listen. we're not, you know, forfeiting the black vote to you just automatically or the latino vote or the asian vote. those are people who are among our striefers, those are people who are energetic, vibrant. they want the best for theps and their families. i want to reach out to all the people of the very diverse state of new jersey and say the republican party is more than the cliche that you've been operating and understanding and hearing lately. >> shepard: the cliche. how did that happen? can you change the model without changing the people?

>> i think you can because the loudest voices are the voices we've been hearing from within the g.o.p., at least since the middle of the first decade of the first of the 2000s when the nativist wing of the republican party abandoned george w. bush and his concept for comprehensive immigration reform, and he they made of the brown-skinned people and other people the enemy. talking about, you know, machine guns on the border and self-deportation and concepts like that. why would a latino person want to vote for a republican under those circumstances? so i was looking at it and i haven't made the commitment, eric and i haven't made the commitment yet, but it's something we're truly contemplating in a very serious way because i think i've been in public life now. this is my fifth decade. it's a great way, i think, to end my -- my professional life, to give back in a sense. it pays a lot less than our

current gig, but i think that, first of all, the republican hasn't won since clif clifford e in nineteein 1972. the reason is we're trying to slam an ideological point of view down their throats. chris christie demonstrated that the race for governor, the former prosecutor who is now such an effective governor and comparable, did such a mag any magnificent job during hurricane sandy, that republicans aren't straight red, straight blue. they will vote for the person and someone's conscience. they appreciate someone who is open-minded and inclusive rather than saying i only want a republican. >> shepard: it will be a good party. geraldo, we're getting a picture from alabama. this is the first picture of the suspect in this insane kidnapping and take the kid down into the bunker situation. this is the man now. the first picture that they've given to us, and everybody says he's just a paranoid dangerous

freak. >> well, he's a survivalist, he's a militant. he killed the bus driver trying to snatch these two children off the boss. the driver died heroically protecting his children. he managed to grab the 5-year-old, the autistic kid who has been in the hole for four days. imagine that. an autistic child in that bunker, 6 by 8, four feet underground. thank god he has his medication. i captur can't imagine but thate child however this ends up will be horribly scared. this person was facing a court date for using weapons against his neighbors, firing at the dog, trying to trash the neighbors because of the, you know. >>know, some perceived satellit. you mentioned the word paranoid. he's obviously that. he's a crazy, heavily armed person. authorities are doing their best to be patient. at some point they're going to worry about this child and how much longer this child can survive under those conditions.

>> the child, the patient patiee whole community. well, senator? >> i haven't made the decision, but i'll definitely invite you to the victory party. that's all i care about. >> shepard: we reported today it was hillary clinton's last day at the state department. did you see the sendoff and the goodbye speech? now that she's gone, this is the first time in 32 years that a clinton or a bush has not been part of the white house administration. did you hear that? 32 years. first time in 32 years with no clinton and no bush in the white house organization. "fox news sunday"'s chris wallace will be here to talk about hix tim hillary clinton'sn office and maybe what office she'll hold next. forsz

>> shepard: secretary of state hillary clinton said goodbye today and is wrapping up the last day as the nation's top diplomat. about an hour ago the speech came, secretary clinton with her

closing speech to packed hall at the state department. >> i leave thinking of the nearly 70,000 people that i was honored to serve and lead as part of a huge extended family. and i hope that you will continue to make yourselves, make me, and make our country proud. >> shepard: the state department reports secretary of state clinton visited 112 countries during her four-year term. that's a record for any secretary of state. she logged nearly a million airline miles and, of course, it was not unusual for the cameras to capture secretary clinton talking or typing messages on her phone. some analysts say her image is a globe trotting rock star, and that likely helped improve america's standing in this world. critics, of course, argue the state department and the white house did not do enough to curb the escalating violence in the middle east and africa which we've seen in the arab spring

clashes and the deadly attack on our consulate in lib ya. joining us now from washington, the host of "fox news sunday", chris wallace. it was quite a scene an hour ago, create. >> absolutely. look. y can be a hillary clinton fan or detractor, but it was obvious they felt the thousands of people in the lobby there at the state department that she had represented them well and ably and i'm not saying anything, but everybody is getting a picture of her. i think she was a strong leader and they appreciated the fact that she was a powerful and visible spokesperson for american dip low ma se diplomace world. >> shepard: everybody in the world knew her when she got the job. that's kind of rare. >> that's right. in that 60 minutes interview last week, one of the things the president said, one of the reasons he picked her is because he knew that she was a world leader. he knew he was going to be focused in the first year or

two almost exclusively on the economy and the domestic problems, and he wanted to have a high visibility figure representing the u.s. around the world. she certainly met that bill. >> shepard: where do we go from here? hillary clinton, can you imagine a world in which she does not run? >> sure. i mean, look. she's going to be what, i think she's 65 now. >> shepard: is she really? >> she'll be 69 by the time the next four years roll around. we've seen with her concussion and the flu and the blood clot, you know, that as one gets older, it's not always certain what's going to happen. having said all of that, i mean, even if you had to bet, you bet she probably will run. first of all, i think if she runs, she immediately becomes the favorite, the overwhelming favorite for the democratic nomination, yes, even against joe biden. she's a rock star in a way that he isn't, and you know, even though she has a not obviously kept it up, there's a huge financial and organizational

support for her, and i think there would be tremendous yes or noing. we've had the first african-american president, now how about the first woman. we would have said those things back in 2007, and she still didn't win, so you know, she's at this enormous plateau. 70% support. does she want to risk all that. when you run for office, you could lose. >> shepard: she has the highest approval rating in general policy of anybody in the city. >> i think that's absolutely correct. let's face it. part of that is because she's been largely non-political. i know some people will talk about benghazi or other policies, but she hasn't been in the jockeying, the to and fro of american politics. it's easier for her to be popular. the minute she starts discussing where she is on the budget and decides to run for office or on the social issues, she louises a lot of that popularity. one other point. she is tied to barack obama. it's very hard for a party to win the presidency three times in a row.

when they win it the third time, it's usually almost a reelection of the previous president like with george h.w. bush. he was elected to ronald reagan's third term. if three years from now people aren't happy with barack obama, his management of the country, then no matter how popular she is, she's going to have a tough time. >> shepard: what you got cookin' for sunday, chris? >> guns. the gun debate. the dramatic hearing this week when gabi giffords came out, the congresswoman who had been shot and was so badly damaged, obviously. her husband, captain mark kelly, a former astronaut, and one of the new leaders in the fight for gun control. he's going to be on as is the head of the national rifle association, wayne la pierre, exclusive interviews with both. i know this is a fool's errand, but i'm going to try to talk about is there some common ground we can find here. i know you report it every day, you know, this one act of violence after another, someone going into a school or a mall or

a place of work or something. isn't there something we can agree on to do to try to lessen the chances of that happening? >> shepard: chris wallace, we'll see you sunday. we'll be right back.

>> shepard: we showed you this picture a short time ago. this is the first picture that we've received of the suspect in the kidnapping in alabama. this is the man who police allege shot and killed a bus driver, then snatched a child, took him into a bunker and three days later, he's still there. i can't even imagine. >> oh, my goodness. >> >> shepard: become part of this family. have a niece that age. when i think about it, my skin crawls. >> frankly, no one can do anything. there's so many levels below ground. their fear is if we go in, we

rush it, that child's dead. he's so unstable. he's already killed one person, what's to say he won't kill the child. law enforcement said the child seems to be safe, dropped down coloring books, he seems to be safe, drop down medicine, but things can change. he's unstable. the other thing that's shocking, he looks normal. that's what i said to my kids. i'm like i've got two kids, stranger dangerr. it's not like someone from the bus stop -- snatching you from the bus stop will look a certain way. even knowing his age, he's 65 years of age. that surprised people. >> shepard: is there a difference in charges that could be filed in kidnapping someone for an hour and kidnapping someone for a month? there could be aggravating circumstances when it comes to a plea deal or his actual sentencing, that's when it comes into play, but kidnapping is kidnapping. obviously he'll be facing kidnapping charges, false imprisonment, and of course, the murder of the bus driver.

>> shepard: i mean, he'll never see the light of dagen, i would guess, but my god. you wonder if there's not some button he they could push to make him let the child out. >> the parents have been on the scene, have pled, done whatever they could. there are hostage negotiators trying to get to him. the standoff is -- i'm assuming something is going to happen and hopefully the child will emerge fine. >> shepard: god bless him and that family. have a good weekend. >> you, too. >> shepard: we'll be right back. ( bell rings ) they remind me so much of my grandkids.

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